radian 8048

Dual Input, 120/240, stainless steel form factor design for unsurpassed surge capability
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sparky
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radian 8048

Post by sparky » Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:13 pm

Hey Guy's! Is a 300AH LFP large enough to not be an issue with an 8048 in a grid mode selling or for back-up? Will that size battery be large enough to be reliable please?

Thank-you!

Mike Curran
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Re: radian 8048

Post by Mike Curran » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:19 pm

If you're using Simpliphi 48V 3.8 phi batteries, this calculator https://simpliphipower.com/support/syst ... alculator/ indicates 5 batteries is the right size for that inverter (5×75Ah/battery=375Ah), so you're in the ballpark. I think battery size may be somewhat dependent on your PV array size as well (I could be wrong about that - I was multitasking during today's Simpliphi battery webinar :grin: ), so plug that into the calculator and see...
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

sparky
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Re: radian 8048

Post by sparky » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:14 am

Client wants to use Battle Born battery @300 AH. Would also be interested if anyone here is using Battle Born and their experience. Thank-you !

raysun
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Re: radian 8048

Post by raysun » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:49 am

sparky wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:14 am
Client wants to use Battle Born battery @300 AH. Would also be interested if anyone here is using Battle Born and their experience. Thank-you !
He might want to check into SimpliPhi before pulling the trigger on Battle Born.

Looking at the Battle Born site, I was suprised to see the offerings scaled back from what has been offered in the past. Supply chain issues perhaps.

Assuming the lowest cost implementation using 12V @ 100AH monoblocks at $949 ea. (I'm not seeing their quantity discount offered now, either)

48V @ 300AH is 12 monoblocks x 949 = $11,388

48V x 300AH = 14,400kWH

Useable capacity of 80% = 14.4kWH x .8 = 11.5kWH

In comparison, SimpliPhi:

Using the 48V @ 75AH monoblock

48V x 75AH = 3.6kWH

14.4kWH / 3.6kWH = 4 monoblocks.

The SimpliPhi 3.8-48 sells for $2690.

2690 x 4 = $10,760

Useable capacity 48Vx300AH@80% = 11.5kWH

Cost isn't necessarily the deciding factor. A good deal of work by SimpliPhi and Outback to integrate the battery into OB systems eliminates a good deal of "trial and error" which, for lithium batteries, could be an expensive proposition. The marketing phrase "drop-in lead acid battery replacement" didn't originate with the engineers. Lithium is definitely simpler to charge, but that doesn't make them easier to charge. Further, using lead acid charging strategies and profiles will make for a very short service life.

I looked at Battle Born early on, but they couldn't supply a supported 48V battery. (12, 24, 36, yes. 48, no.) They seem to have gotten past that shortcoming now. I don’t know anyone, however, who is using them so can't give feedback.

SimpliPhi has been deployed by several folks on this board. After 3 years of research (and waiting for my current battery to go EOL), I'm going to install a SimpliPhi battery next month.

The SimpliPhi integration guides and application notes will give you a wealth of information on sizing a battery for any particular usage scenario. Even if Battle Born is employed, the SimpliPhi information is educational.

sparky
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Re: radian 8048

Post by sparky » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:43 pm

Plug is pulled but thank-you for your insight.

Simplyphi also provides the data to calibrate the battery monitor for Outback and Schneider Bat mons which is a huge aide. I mainly use Discover AES with my schneider clients as there is no bat mon and all that is required is to enter system time and date for configuration. I am hoping Outback will do something like this soon with their offering.



Anyone else on if a 300 AH battery will cause issues with the 8048 in a grid-tie?

raysun
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Re: radian 8048

Post by raysun » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:25 pm

sparky wrote:
Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:43 pm
Plug is pulled but thank-you for your insight. Anyone else on if a 300 AH battery will cause issues with the 8048 in a grid-tie?
If this is Backup mode, 300AH should provide a moderate runtime for the 8kW inverter. Length of time dependent on load, of course.

Battle Born recommends a 50A or less charging rate for long life, so 3 strings in parallel will certainly accept the full output of the inverter chargers.

Figuring 150A max charging current, if solar PV charging will be part of the mix, 50V x 150A suggests 7.5kW of PV can be accomodated.

sparky
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Re: radian 8048

Post by sparky » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:00 pm

What I really mean by the battery size, is there a spec for the minimum size to not have undefined behavior of the radian when going from the various modes that the unit will experience in grid tie backup modes. For instance Schneider has always said the xw6848 needs a minimum 400ah @ 20 hour rate for the system to be stable. Is there any guidance from Outback on this? I could not find it in the manual. Does not mean it is not there somewhere. Thanks!

raysun
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My RE system: Flexpower Two: (2) FXR3048A, (2) FM80, MATE3s, FlexNetDC
SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: radian 8048

Post by raysun » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:50 pm

Ah! I've never seen such a reference. I wonder what the context is for Schneider's specification?

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