Is Temperature Compensation broken?

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Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby stevenlib on Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:20 am

Hi,

I just added a CC FM60 and 9 news solar panels as well as a brand new battery bank up to 750AH of capacity.

Things are weird however trying to get everything working as it should.
The weirdest thing is battery compensation, it now seems to work in reverse.

When I get to 57.6 absorb mode and the battery are colder than 25 Celsius (say 20C), instead of sending a higher voltage it does the opposite and sends a lower voltage.
The consequences are rather serious as I do not want to ruin my new batteries and undercharging is pretty bad.

Now the sensor gives the right temperature so what is the issue? Is this a known bug?

Regards,
stevenlib
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Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby Kurt Lundquist on Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:27 am

What OB device is your temp sensor connected to? Do you have more than one temp sensor?

Do you have a Hub?

What are the Hub port positions for your OB devices?

Do you have a Mate? What is the Mate firmware version?

-Kurt
Kurt Lundquist
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http://www.alpha.com/solar
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Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby stevenlib on Mon Nov 16, 2015 8:28 am

Hi,

I have everything, a hub, MATE3 etc.
The TC sensor is connected to the inverter.

++
stevenlib
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My RE system: VFX3648 2xFM60 750AH c/20 Dynasty VRLTAGM

Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby Kurt Lundquist on Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:21 am

What port of the Hub is the Inverter connected to?

What is the Mate3 firmware version? (LOCK > 141 Password > SETTINGS > SYSTEM > FIRMWARE VERSIONS)

-Kurt
Kurt Lundquist
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Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby stevenlib on Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:25 am

Hi,

Here is the info, i can send you privately a link to browse my system if you wish:


Mate 3 Firmware: 002.015.000
Port: 1 FX Firmware: 061.000.000
Port: 2 CC Firmware: 003.003.000
Port: 3 FNDC Firmware: 001.001.071
Port: 4 CC Firmware: 003.003.000

Regards,
stevenlib
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Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:58 am
Location: Canada East
My RE system: VFX3648 2xFM60 750AH c/20 Dynasty VRLTAGM

Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby Kurt Lundquist on Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:31 am

I suggest you update to Firmware 002.019.000. If you want to use Optics you can update to a version 3 firmware. If you decide to go that route I suggest you update to 002.019.000 before doing the update to version 3.

http://www.outbackpower.com/catalogs-collaterals/item/fa-mate3?category_id=475

-Kurt
Kurt Lundquist
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http://www.alpha.com/solar
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Posts: 854
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My RE system: VFX3524, Mate3, 200Ah 24V AGM Battery Bank

Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby stevenlib on Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:36 am

Hi,

Ok I will do that, I had planned to update the CC's firmware but I might as well update everything in sequence.

Regards,
stevenlib
Forum Whiz
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:58 am
Location: Canada East
My RE system: VFX3648 2xFM60 750AH c/20 Dynasty VRLTAGM

Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby Kurt Lundquist on Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:43 am

The CCs, FNDC, and FX all have the most recent version of firmware.

To see your Temp Comp voltage target vs the battery temperature press the 3rd soft key from the left under the Mate3 screen then press NEXT. It should say Inverter Battery on the top and then show you battery temp and the temp comp target on the right hand side.

-Kurt
Kurt Lundquist
Alpha Energy Systems Engineer
http://www.alpha.com/solar
User avatar
Kurt Lundquist
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Posts: 854
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My RE system: VFX3524, Mate3, 200Ah 24V AGM Battery Bank

Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby stevenlib on Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:36 am

Hi,

I do see the temperature compensation, thank you. I have been using the system since 2011.

Anyway it worked! The new firmware corrected everything.
Now the temperature compensation provides accurate data. For instance it says actual 51.2 (while charging in bulk with low light) and it says in the temp comp field 50.8 when the batteries are at 20 celsius. Now using a voltmeter I can confirm the info while before the voltage reading were reversed.

Thank you very much, very helpful support.

Take care.
stevenlib
Forum Whiz
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:58 am
Location: Canada East
My RE system: VFX3648 2xFM60 750AH c/20 Dynasty VRLTAGM

Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby stevenlib on Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:57 am

Hi,

I joined two files:

1. The reading from the MATE.
I am not sure I understand it now as the reading at the battery terminals reads the same voltage as the actual displayed.
So I wonder why one CC says its in bulk and the other in absord as even tough I produce more then needed the global voltage do not reach seems to reach the absord levek on that screen. I use to see an arrow indication the mode it was in before.
It really looks like the battery compensation works in reverse, lowering voltage instead of increasing it when the temperature is lower than 25C.

2. The screenshot for the 2 CC. I guess that when float coordination is enabled this is normal to see one in bulk and the other one in absorb?

Very weird what is going on now, it looks like the CC do not complete their charge cycle as planned.
Also, I did set the EQ to 58v (so the resulting voltage at the battery would 57.6) BUT it does nothing, voltage remains at 57.2
I am at a loss here.

Regards,
Attachments
outback.JPG
CC
mate3.JPG
Mate
stevenlib
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Posts: 36
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My RE system: VFX3648 2xFM60 750AH c/20 Dynasty VRLTAGM

Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby Kurt Lundquist on Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:59 pm

I am not sure I understand it now as the reading at the battery terminals reads the same voltage as the actual displayed.


The battery actual reading should match the voltage that you see at the battery terminals, otherwise you have voltage drop between the inverter and the battery bank.

So I wonder why one CC says its in bulk and the other in absord as even tough I produce more then needed the global voltage do not reach seems to reach the absord levek on that screen


This will happen when your charge controllers see different battery voltages. You can try to calibrate the CC output voltage reading while the system is at rest. Overall it isn't a big issue as the Absorb charge stage is a constant voltage charge. As long as one controller can stay in Absorb for the amount of time that your batteries need an Absorb charge then your batteries are getting the power that they need.

It really looks like the battery compensation works in reverse, lowering voltage instead of increasing it when the temperature is lower than 25C.


From your picture it looks like the Temp Comp is working properly. Battery Actual is 57.6V, temp is 21°C so the temp compensated battery voltage is 57.2V. If you are in a Bulk charge stage I would expect the system to bring the battery actual to 58VDC so that the temp compensated voltage matches the 57.6V target for Bulk/Absorb.

The screenshot for the 2 CC. I guess that when float coordination is enabled this is normal to see one in bulk and the other one in absorb?


One of your controllers will need to finish Absorb and go into Float before the Mate3 will force the other controller into Float. Float coordination only works when you are in the Float stage.

What does your controllers say for Btemp? To find this press the far left button under the charge controller screen (don't use the Mate3), then point the arrow on the screen at Misc and press GO, press NEXT twice and you should see Btemp. There should be a number with an X. The X indicates that the controllers can see the RTS data.

-Kurt
Kurt Lundquist
Alpha Energy Systems Engineer
http://www.alpha.com/solar
User avatar
Kurt Lundquist
Alpha Energy Engineering
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 7:23 am
Location: Arlington, WA
My RE system: VFX3524, Mate3, 200Ah 24V AGM Battery Bank

Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby stevenlib on Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:39 pm

klundquist wrote:
I am not sure I understand it now as the reading at the battery terminals reads the same voltage as the actual displayed.


The battery actual reading should match the voltage that you see at the battery terminals, otherwise you have voltage drop between the inverter and the battery bank.

Ok, so this is ok, no voltage drop (size 6 cable largest that fits in). I do get the same voltage at the battery terminals.


It really looks like the battery compensation works in reverse, lowering voltage instead of increasing it when the temperature is lower than 25C.


From your picture it looks like the Temp Comp is working properly. Battery Actual is 57.6V, temp is 21°C so the temp compensated battery voltage is 57.2V. If you are in a Bulk charge stage I would expect the system to bring the battery actual to 58VDC so that the temp compensated voltage matches the 57.6V target for Bulk/Absorb.

Hum... I am confused. Indeed I would expect 58VDC BUT no, its stays at 57.6, I had to change the absorb voltage in the settings to reach that voltage. That is NOT automatic then. It used to work before, before I changed the controllers and added one.



What does your controllers say for Btemp? To find this press the far left button under the charge controller screen (don't use the Mate3), then point the arrow on the screen at Misc and press GO, press NEXT twice and you should see Btemp. There should be a number with an X. The X indicates that the controllers can see the RTS data.
-Kurt

Here is the info :
Attachments
Mate.JPG
stevenlib
Forum Whiz
 
Posts: 36
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:58 am
Location: Canada East
My RE system: VFX3648 2xFM60 750AH c/20 Dynasty VRLTAGM

Re: Is Temperature Compensation broken?

Postby Kurt Lundquist on Thu Nov 19, 2015 8:41 am

The X means the CC is using the temperature data from the RTS. I don't know what the 141 number relates to in Celsius. My system is at 20°C and my CC shows 139X. The lower the Btmp number, the hotter the reading so your 139X is probably ~21°C.

Try to calibrate the CC battery voltage reading while the system is at rest. Ideally you can get the OUT voltage on both controllers to match the battery voltage on the Mate3.

-Kurt
Kurt Lundquist
Alpha Energy Systems Engineer
http://www.alpha.com/solar
User avatar
Kurt Lundquist
Alpha Energy Engineering
 
Posts: 854
Joined: Tue May 31, 2011 7:23 am
Location: Arlington, WA
My RE system: VFX3524, Mate3, 200Ah 24V AGM Battery Bank


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