Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

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JRHill
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by JRHill » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:04 pm

Plz send me the file for printing. Gosh that would be fun to screw with the Portland weekenders: "ACCESS TO PHOTONS ISN'T A PRIVILEGE, ITS A RIGHT!"

I'm sure the National Guard would be involved with that cause the fed would claim ownership of photons. Some would resist. This is an interstate issue so they can do it.. It might take a few days to figure out how to levy taxes but they are good for the goal.

raysun
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Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by raysun » Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:42 pm

JRHill wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 2:04 pm
Plz send me the file for printing. Gosh that would be fun to screw with the Portland weekenders: "ACCESS TO PHOTONS ISN'T A PRIVILEGE, ITS A RIGHT!"

I'm sure the National Guard would be involved with that cause the fed would claim ownership of photons. Some would resist. This is an interstate issue so they can do it.. It might take a few days to figure out how to levy taxes but they are good for the goal.
I think the Space Force is going to commandeer all the photons for their new torpedoes.

sodamo
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by sodamo » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:19 pm

Here in Hawaii at least 2 taxes, the General Excise Tax which 4+% on most everything and another 10+% Transient tax because even though they have a home they chose to stay elsewhere.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

JRHill
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by JRHill » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:17 pm

sodamo wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:19 pm
Here in Hawaii at least 2 taxes, the General Excise Tax which 4+% on most everything and another 10+% Transient tax because even though they have a home they chose to stay elsewhere.
Sigh. But they haven't yet taxed your off grid kWh? Or your water? Or your air?

raysun
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Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by raysun » Tue Jun 02, 2020 5:48 pm

Good Lord! We are bored.

Dad, are we there yet?

https://youtu.be/l0zaebtU-CA

JRHill
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by JRHill » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:29 pm

Back to the beginning with all joking aside, what did you gain from this thread?

Or is it secrecy?

JRHill
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by JRHill » Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:38 pm

sodamo wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:19 pm
Here in Hawaii at least 2 taxes, the General Excise Tax which 4+% on most everything and another 10+% Transient tax because even though they have a home they chose to stay elsewhere.
I have to ponder this - a transient tax. To me that would be folks that float through with no, eh, contribution? In times past the were seasonal hunters/visitors, here and everywhere. Then those who do but not respond. But in HI, How does that hit permanent residences? My gosh, it sounds like a mess.

sodamo
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4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
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14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
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Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by sodamo » Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:10 pm

JRHill wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:38 pm
sodamo wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:19 pm
Here in Hawaii at least 2 taxes, the General Excise Tax which 4+% on most everything and another 10+% Transient tax because even though they have a home they chose to stay elsewhere.
I have to ponder this - a transient tax. To me that would be folks that float through with no, eh, contribution? In times past the were seasonal hunters/visitors, here and everywhere. Then those who do but not respond. But in HI, How does that hit permanent residences? My gosh, it sounds like a mess.
Basically applies to transient accommodations of 6 months or less if you have another permanent address. There are some limited exceptions. When wife and I go to Oahu later this month for her eye surgery and stay in hotel, we will pay both GET and TAT on the room.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

JRHill
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by JRHill » Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:41 pm

sodamo wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:10 pm
JRHill wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:38 pm
sodamo wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:19 pm
Here in Hawaii at least 2 taxes, the General Excise Tax which 4+% on most everything and another 10+% Transient tax because even though they have a home they chose to stay elsewhere.
I have to ponder this - a transient tax. To me that would be folks that float through with no, eh, contribution? In times past the were seasonal hunters/visitors, here and everywhere. Then those who do but not respond. But in HI, How does that hit permanent residences? My gosh, it sounds like a mess.
Basically applies to transient accommodations of 6 months or less if you have another permanent address. There are some limited exceptions. When wife and I go to Oahu later this month for her eye surgery and stay in hotel, we will pay both GET and TAT on the room.
GET? TAT?

sodamo
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Posts: 843
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:55 am
My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by sodamo » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:33 pm

JRHill wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:41 pm
sodamo wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:10 pm
JRHill wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:38 pm


I have to ponder this - a transient tax. To me that would be folks that float through with no, eh, contribution? In times past the were seasonal hunters/visitors, here and everywhere. Then those who do but not respond. But in HI, How does that hit permanent residences? My gosh, it sounds like a mess.
Basically applies to transient accommodations of 6 months or less if you have another permanent address. There are some limited exceptions. When wife and I go to Oahu later this month for her eye surgery and stay in hotel, we will pay both GET and TAT on the room.
GET? TAT?
Sorry
GET = General Excise Tax - paid on almost everything
TAT = Transient Accommodation Tax - paid by almost everyone based on housing status.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

JRHill
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by JRHill » Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:01 pm

If you come up here you will have to pay JRH tax. That would be your favorite food that you direct preparation.

sodamo
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My RE system: Totally off grid - Hamakua side, Big Island, Hi

36 Trina 280 & 16 Phono 250 in 48 volt array (fixed) 14080w
Radians GG8048/GS4048 w GSLCs
4 FM 80 charge controllers
Hub 10.3
FNDC w/3 shunts
Mate 3s
OpticsRE - MMKL - Ninole Hi
12 SimpliPhi 3.8
14Kw Kohler 14RESA Propane

Charging Only
2FX3048T
Hub
FNDC. - shared shunt feeds from Radian FNDC
Mate 3s
10Kw MEP 803a Military gen

Honda EU7000i

Davis VantagePro2 Wx Station
On line at: https://www.wunderground.com/dashboard/pws/KHININOL2
Location: Ninole, Hi

Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by sodamo » Sat Jun 06, 2020 8:21 pm

Not so practiced directing preparation but fairly decent at actual preparation.
David
Please visit http://vacation.ninolehawaii.com

krementz
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by krementz » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:19 pm

I have bought 4 3.8 kwh Simpliphi batteries to work with my FX2524.

It's an old system, and has the Mate 1 controller. The highest battery cut off Voltage setting is 24.0 V

Simpliphi recommends a 24.8V LBCO

How can I do this?

Is there something with the auxiliary contacts I could do?

raysun
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Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by raysun » Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:36 pm

krementz wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:19 pm
I have bought 4 3.8 kwh Simpliphi batteries to work with my FX2524.

It's an old system, and has the Mate 1 controller. The highest battery cut off Voltage setting is 24.0 V

Simpliphi recommends a 24.8V LBCO

How can I do this?

Is there something with the auxiliary contacts I could do?
I'm in the same situation with an FX3048T. It doesn't line up with the SimpliPhi battery in terms of LBCO (or HBCO, but that's less of an issue.)

The short of it is an external monitor will be needed to manage LBCO protection. The monitor needs functionality to respond to the detected voltage and trigger a relay that can switch the state of the Inverter ON/OFF terminals.

I have a Mate3S and FNDC so will be using those to set the proper events. Other battery monitors may be less expensive and provide similar functionality. IIRC the Victron 7xx series have an auxiliary relay that can be triggered on a voltage set point.

What's your charging infrastructure?

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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by Mike Curran » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:23 pm

A quick and dirty fix would be to reset the FX's voltage calibration 0.8 volts lower than actual, and set LBCO at the max 24V. So when your FX thinks voltage is 24.0 it'll actually be 24.8 (your desired cutoff). Only question is does calibration allow an offset as high as 0.8V?

Of course all your other charger settings will have to take into account this calibration. The good news is the Simpliphi batteries don't want or need temperature compensation.
http://www.tigoenergy.com/site.php?95b2dca2-ca6c
https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/Hctc107221

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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by raysun » Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:40 pm

Mike Curran wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:23 pm
A quick and dirty fix would be to reset the FX's voltage calibration 0.8 volts lower than actual, and set LBCO at the max 24V. So when your FX thinks voltage is 24.0 it'll actually be 24.8 (your desired cutoff). Only question is does calibration allow an offset as high as 0.8V?

Of course all your other charger settings will have to take into account this calibration. The good news is the Simpliphi batteries don't want or need temperature compensation.
I monkeyed with that hack as well. The biggest problem is the LBCO on the old FX units is fixed at 5 minutes. It's sort of a tap dance to balance the cutoff point against the time. On the plus side, the battery's BMS should automatically protect the battery, but if it does so, it kills the warranty.

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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by krementz » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:01 am

I don't understand what you mean what the "5 minutes" is, and how that impacts LBCO. Doesn't LBCO just turn off the inverter until there is more battery juice, irrespective of the time elapsed?

What is the tap dance?

krementz
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by krementz » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:13 am

raysun wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:36 pm
krementz wrote:
Sat Jul 25, 2020 12:19 pm
I have bought 4 3.8 kwh Simpliphi batteries to work with my FX2524.

It's an old system, and has the Mate 1 controller. The highest battery cut off Voltage setting is 24.0 V

Simpliphi recommends a 24.8V LBCO

How can I do this?

Is there something with the auxiliary contacts I could do?
I'm in the same situation with an FX3048T. It doesn't line up with the SimpliPhi battery in terms of LBCO (or HBCO, but that's less of an issue.)

The short of it is an external monitor will be needed to manage LBCO protection. The monitor needs functionality to respond to the detected voltage and trigger a relay that can switch the state of the Inverter ON/OFF terminals.

I have a Mate3S and FNDC so will be using those to set the proper events. Other battery monitors may be less expensive and provide similar functionality. IIRC the Victron 7xx series have an auxiliary relay that can be triggered on a voltage set point.

What's your charging infrastructure?
If I have an external relay for low voltage, how does it communicate to the inverter to shut down? I don't see how the inverter relay can control the inverter (shut it down). What am I missing?

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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by EA6LE-ONE » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:22 am

krementz wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:13 am


If I have an external relay for low voltage, how does it communicate to the inverter to shut down? I don't see how the inverter relay can control the inverter (shut it down). What am I missing?
the inverter should have a jumper to start that can be replaced by a wire to the relay.

krementz
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My RE system: 4 24v 3.8kWh Simpliphi lithium batteries, MX-60, 1200 watts PV panels, 24 volt inverter FX2524T, Mate, Trimetric, off grid with no generator on island in Maine. Primary system is 16kW SMA with 84 kWh gel batteries.

Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by krementz » Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:35 am

EA6LE-ONE wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:22 am
krementz wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:13 am


If I have an external relay for low voltage, how does it communicate to the inverter to shut down? I don't see how the inverter relay can control the inverter (shut it down). What am I missing?
the inverter should have a jumper to start that can be replaced by a wire to the relay.
Got it, thanx. P. 22 of the installation manual, http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/d ... nstall.pdf

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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by danielgrant007 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:15 am

well!
I have GTFX/GVFX/GFX series in my system. Its good but not very Excellent.
I have to charge a lot. Is there any way to reduce it.
thank you.
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Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by provo » Wed Jul 29, 2020 8:36 am

danielgrant007 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:15 am

I have GTFX/GVFX/GFX series in my system. Its good but not very Excellent.
I have to charge a lot. Is there any way to reduce it.
Please start a new topic for this thread.
You would also need to provide a lot more information about your
system to receive any meaningful advice.

krementz
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My RE system: 4 24v 3.8kWh Simpliphi lithium batteries, MX-60, 1200 watts PV panels, 24 volt inverter FX2524T, Mate, Trimetric, off grid with no generator on island in Maine. Primary system is 16kW SMA with 84 kWh gel batteries.

Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by krementz » Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:37 am

krementz wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:35 am
EA6LE-ONE wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:22 am
krementz wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 5:13 am


If I have an external relay for low voltage, how does it communicate to the inverter to shut down? I don't see how the inverter relay can control the inverter (shut it down). What am I missing?
the inverter should have a jumper to start that can be replaced by a wire to the relay.
Got it, thanx. P. 22 of the installation manual, http://www.outbackpower.com/downloads/d ... nstall.pdf
I got a 24V EAZY VLC relay https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078S ... UTF8&psc=1 to trigger a LBCO at 24.8 V.

I thought I saw something on these boards about programming it. I can program the voltages, but I do not see how to make it a simple on/off. It wants to set a timer or a cycle. I just want it to open the relay at 24.8 V and close it again at 26 V, regardless of the length of time.

Any help here?

raysun
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SimpliPhi 48-3.8 (6 @ 48v)
Outback IBR3 battery enclosure
Suniva 330 watt panels (12 - 6 strings of 2 in series)
Hyundai 355 watt panels (6 - 3 strings of 2 in series)
Honda EU7000is gas fuel generator

Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by raysun » Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:05 am

krementz wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 8:37 am

I got a 24V EAZY VLC relay https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B078S ... UTF8&psc=1 to trigger a LBCO at 24.8 V.

I thought I saw something on these boards about programming it. I can program the voltages, but I do not see how to make it a simple on/off. It wants to set a timer or a cycle. I just want it to open the relay at 24.8 V and close it again at 26 V, regardless of the length of time.

Any help here?
So THAT'S where those come from! That looks like the standard countdown timer required on every villian's bomb fuze in every action movie ever made. 😉

A quick read of the specs seems to confirm its timer-only.

Its going to take some form of set point relay/controller to implement Low Battery Cutoff and Low Battery Cut in functions.

krementz
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My RE system: 4 24v 3.8kWh Simpliphi lithium batteries, MX-60, 1200 watts PV panels, 24 volt inverter FX2524T, Mate, Trimetric, off grid with no generator on island in Maine. Primary system is 16kW SMA with 84 kWh gel batteries.

Re: Outback equipment/lithium battery compatibility

Post by krementz » Thu Oct 22, 2020 1:52 pm

Actually I think I do have it running properly. Set to code P-5, and it is a straight on/off relay.

Off at 24.8 V, don't go back on until 26 V. Go to P-6 and turn off the very bright LEDs.

Skip all the fancy stuff.

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